The Quest for the Holy Grail Continues

So since my last post, I've been doing a lot of reading...and by "a lot of reading", I mean A LOT OF READING... I was pretty excited about the Dodge Grand Caravan a day or two ago... They were having employee pricing, we'd get a nice loyalty rebate for buying another Dodge, they'd give us free DVD players installed in the van, and their prices were already lower than most other competitors... They even had a blue one on the lot at our local dealership, just like I wanted... Between me, my parents, and my sister, the last 347 cars (give or take 342) our family has bought have been red... Both of my cars now are red... I want a blue car, dammit! And there's a nice blue one sitting on a lot ten minutes from my house...

And then a friend of mine told me about his positive experience with his Toyota Sienna...

And then my cousin let me borrow his log-in to read what Consumer Reports had to say about minivans...

Holy crap...

The Toyota Sienna scored the best in Consumer Reports' study, and they gave it 93 points out of a possible 100... The Honda Odyssey scored a close second at 91 points... Guess who was dead last... Dodge Grand Caravan... 60 points... Second worst? Chrysler Town & Country (the plush Dodge) with 64 points... Third worst was the Nissan Quest with 78 points... So the Dodge and Chrysler are the class dunces by a long shot...

They got several black circles from Consumer Reports--their worst rating--in such categories as "predicted reliability", suspension, body hardware, brakes, fuel system, electrical system, climate system, and a category called "used car verdicts," which Consumer Reports describes as showing "whether the model had more or fewer problems overall than the average model of that year." You know...just minor stuff like that... The first sentence of their review of the Grand Caravan reads: "Overall, the Grand Caravan is a disappointment." In the owner satisfaction poll, they tied for worst with the Kia Sedona on the question "Would you buy this car again?"

It was brutal...

Meanwhile, the Toyota Sienna tied for first with the Honda Odyssey on the owner satisfaction poll, the review of the Sienna began with "our top rated minivan is comfortable with well-designed features," it has the best gas mileage of all the minivans, and the reliability ratings were almost entirely their highest or second highest rating... "Used car verdict"? Consumer Reports' second highest dot in their rating system...

So I check Edmunds.com...

Their review of the Dodge Grand Caravan starts like this:

You know that guy you meet at a party who seems really cool? Then you hang out with him for a whole weekend and that cool guy is actually a loudmouth sexist who chews with his mouth open? Well, the 2009 Dodge Grand Caravan is the automotive equivalent of that guy...In other words, the Grand Caravan is not a quality product, more a perfect example of cost-cutting and half-hearted design from a company just trying to survive.

The review just got worse from there...

Their review of the Toyota Sienna mirrored that of Consumer Reports... Good car... Well-built... Comfortable... Reliable...

JD Power & Associates? Dodge Grand Caravan scored "about average" on comfort, and below average on everything else... The Sienna only scores below average on "features accessories quality design"...and scores average or better on everything else... Oh, and it has a higher comfort rating than the Dodge... The one thing that Dodge did well at...or was at least average at...and the Sienna beat it...

Plus I've still got my friend raving about his Sienna...

In a last-ditch attempt to justify buying a Dodge, I decide that I need to buy American...help the American economy...do my civic duty...all that kind of stuff... So I download the actual window sticker on the blue Grand Caravan that I've been eyeing at our local dealership... Damn thing was made in CANADA!!! I guess it can be considered American-made as long as we're talking about NORTH AMERICA...

Anyone want to guess where the Toyota Sienna is made? From 1998 to 2003, they were made in Georgetown, Kentucky... From 2004 to today, they're made in Princeton, Indiana... I live in Indiana... I drive right past the plant that makes those Siennas every time we go visit my in-laws... Hard to get much closer to supporting my local economy than that...

If I buy a Dodge, it's actually made in Canada... To buy something made in America, I have to buy from a Japanese manufacturer... Patriotism is very confusing...

In my mind--sad as it is for me--the Dodge Grand Caravan is down for the count...

So, I start looking on-line for Siennas, and I find one on sale for $3000 less than everywhere else... Just this one van... It's not blue, but it's a dark grey color that doesn't look too awful on my computer screen (and it's not red!)... It's at a dealership that is about 90 minutes away from us...not the one that is 15 minutes away from us... But it's a really good price, I've learned after MUCH internet shopping, so I want to see it... Plus, my friend claims that once I drive a Sienna, I'll be hooked...

So the Mrs., Olivia, June, and I all pile into the car and make the drive... We test drive the van...and I have to agree with my friend: it's really nice... Okay, it's REALLY nice... Especially compared to my very basic seven-year-old van... I don't want to admit to everything that I do to a vehicle when I test drive it, but let's just say that the Sienna has a lot of giddy-up-and-go, it corners well at high speeds, the anti-lock brakes work well, and it does all of this while the stereo plays my favorite Disturbed song with crystal clarity at a volume that makes your ears bleed...

And in case you're wondering, Olivia and June were not in the car with me while I was test driving... Not that it would have fazed them much... That's pretty much how we roll to daycare every morning... (Jeez, I sure hope the Mrs. isn't reading this...)

The only thing this particular vehicle lacks is a built-in DVD player, which I really want... Olivia and June are easily tranquilized by Max & Ruby, Dora the Explorer, and the Little Einsteins (among others)... That comes in real handy on long trips like, say, to the in-laws... The dealership says they can install one...for a tremendously inflated fee of $1200, of course...and while they know I only want a monthly payment of a certain dollar amount, they think they can get me in this van for just $50 a month more than I told them I want to pay...

This is not my first experience buying a car, though, so I had told them $50 a month less than I was REALLY willing to pay, knowing that this is exactly what would happen...

The Mrs. and I discuss it rather briefly, because we both know that the other one wants this van... We tell the sales lady to give us hard figures... She comes back with a monthly payment $100 higher than I told them I was willing to pay...$50 higher than I REALLY was willing to pay...and $50 higher than they originally said the payment would be! WTF?! "Why is that?" the Mrs. asked, "Because of the DVD player?" The sales lady says yes...

Now I don't profess to be a genius or anything, but even my feeble brain can figure $50/month times 60 months is WAY more than $1200 for the DVD player, even with interest... The Mrs. is no dummy, either, so she asks the sales lady how much money we'd have to put down to lower the monthly payments by $50... The answer is $2500... Um...what? A $1200 DVD player raises the monthly payment $50, but it takes $2500 down to lower it $50?

When it was clear that we were not happy with the hard numbers, or the complete crock of shit that she came up with to justify them, the sales lady made a feeble attempt to get us to lease the van, instead (even though we had already told her that we were interested in buying, not leasing), but I was already mentally checked out of this transaction... I get lied to all day every day for a living... I don't need this bullshit from her...

She seemed a bit surprised when we packed up all the kids and walked out, never looking back...

When we got home, I crunched my own numbers... $2500 down would, indeed, lower the monthly payment by $50... What she wasn't telling us all along was that we were never in the payment range that we wanted to be in to begin with... An open and honest conversation about that early on in our discussions would have brought about negotiations on a down payment, and very likely a sale for her, instead of the sour note it all ended on...

My guess is that this is not the last we've heard from this sales lady... I'll be shocked if I don't hear from her in the next day or two... I'm willing to compromise on a down payment, but now I want that DVD player for free...just because she pissed me off... And I know it doesn't cost them anywhere NEAR $1200 for that thing, even including labor... She said herself, earlier in the afternoon when I asked her how long it would take to install a DVD player, that they have a ton of them in stock and they're easy to install, so it would be done in a day... So is she going to throw away the sale of a vehicle over a part that probably only costs the dealership a few hundred bucks? I seriously doubt it...

I also e-mailed the Toyota dealership 15 minutes from us, and asked if they'd match the sale price of the Sienna and put the DVD player in for free... And if they will, I'll buy from them tomorrow... If they won't, I'll see if I can leverage it from the sales lady at today's dealership... And if she won't, I'm in the perfect car-buying position: I don't need a new car... I may want one, but I don't need one... I can probably keep my current van running for a few more years and still be money ahead on a car payment... And the car dealers of central Indiana can kiss my ass...

Last I checked, the auto industry was the one suffering, not me... The way I see it, that gives me a pretty darn good amount of leverage... But I'm starting to think that the people who run the auto industry are the same people who run the airline industry...

The next few days should be interesting...